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July 27, 2006

Comments

Jason_Hughlett

While we are limited, and our perceptions and lenses are shaped by culture, I have a question. Isn't what sets us apart as believers in Christ the working of Holy Spirit in out lives? To reveal truths through scripture.. to lead us into all truth...and to be transforming our minds from the patterns (or culture) of this world to his image?

While I agree this is absolutley loaded with subjectivity that has been abused forever I still have always looked to it as a hope for not being just another brainwashed robot that happens to be Christian because I was born into a Christian family.

Now I guess one of the fruits to a "Spirit" lead road to truth would be humility and trust that maybe isn't displayed by some that are righteous by there intelectual assent into truth..

Maybe I missed your point! I guess it's just something that has been on my mind lately as I have been thinking about similar things. I've been off the internet a bit so I missed the first part of this series. I will go back now and catch up.

By the way I took some of what you said about the LXX recently and used it as the basis for a great discussion in our little NT survey class were doing at the church.

Bill

Uh oh, you're repeating something I've said to other people! I joke about it, but it makes me nervous because I always hate to think I might ever mislead someone. I'm such an amateur when it comes to most of this stuff. That doesn't stop me from trying to engage in dialogue, though!

I appreciate what you're saying about the Holy Spirit. I think an understanding of pneumatology is something that's really missing in my own understanding of theology. I also think that having grown up in a naturalistic world, I don't tend to think about God's supernatural leading enough (if that makes sense).

I think you must be right, though. If we believe we have the Spirit of God in us, we must have some kind of "edge" on discerning truth, right? I'll have to think about it some more.

ken

Just because we may (or may not) have an "edge" on unbelievers (or other believers) doesn't give us the right to be arrogant, condescending, or close-minded. With a greater level of knowledge should come a greater humbleness, tolerance, and patience for those that aren't at the same level that we are.

Too often those that are regarded (or simply regard themselves as) experts walk and act like they have a stick shoved up their....(you get the picture) and are too smart for the room.

When you loose your curiousity and wonder, you loose the freshness and spark that is supposed to set us apart from others.

Bill

I agree whole-heartedly. Some peoples' attitudes are such a turn-off. They don't realize that how they are saying things really affects the message they're trying to communicate.

Jason_Hughlett

Going to a charismatic church, (and being in leadership at one) one of the struggles we are always going to face is eliteism and pride. We try to remember the same Spirit that gives gifts, is the same one that produces the fruits of gentleness ect... If the fruit are missing then it shows us a lot. Thats how we try to proceed at least. It can be a trainwreck as well. HA!

Rick

Bill - you are exactly right! ;-)

george

Did he say what the "emergers" should learn from the "larger evangelical" church?
I'll tell you as a non-emerger one of the biggest turn-offs to the emergent church is the appearance arrogance of the "emergers" in general. Not everybody, but my goodness go to some of the websites and you can see comments that tend to be so condescending towards the "non-emergers". like "someday they'll understand".

I have not yet witnessed real humility in emergers. Of course I'm sure "emergers" could say the same thing about the larger evangelical church. But if the emergers are so far above the rest of us they should be leading by example.

My guess is Satan is giggling while we haggle over who's got the "best" truth or who's got "more" truth or whatever other idiotic thing we're going to fight over instead of glorifying God.

Bill

George,

I think you're right in saying that emergers can be know-it-alls, too. We can tend to be heavy-handed in our denouncing of some of the conservative theological ideas we disagree with. Sometimes I think it's too much of a reaction as opposed to a call back to the middle of God's will/truth/plan for us.

I think one difference I see in EC circles is that they are more willing to explore questions that other groups would consider out of bounds, which is what my next post will be about.

I would like to believe that we are less apt to making dogmatic statements in general, but as you have pointed out, that isn't always the case.

By the way, I feel a little tentative about saying "we," not because I'm opposed to what people call the emerging church, but because I don't really think of myself as being an active participant. I think this has happened because I get turned off by all of the conroversy and Christian in-fighting. I'd rather discuss specific theological concepts than argue for or against a movement, conversation, or whatever you want to call it.

When I read McKnight's interview, however, I liked what he had to say. I DO think the emerging church has something to teach the wider evangelical world and I hope they continue to succeed in being a positive influence.

george

I agree that McKnight had some very interesting things to say in the interview and they are things we should all think about.
And if I'm reading you correctly, I agree...
I get so frustrated with the labels. I just want to be a Christian.

When you comin' home? We miss you in these parts.

Bill

We start on our trek this Monday! We will be at my parents' house by Saturday or Sunday.

John

While I agree that Western Christian faith has become in many ways an intellectual exercise, can we really blame the church for mimicking the Platonic method used by Paul to exposit Christ? Paul says we are "workmen" with words, but ironically, arguably the two most important events in Paul's life had little to do with the logic of words >> his supernatural encounter with the risen Jesus, and his supernatural transcendence into the "third heaven".

Ultimately, God is not text - he is beyond words. He calls us to a place beyond the duality of textual logic - back to unity of the garden before good and evil were known.

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